Last week, our Steering Committee met and reviewed the consulting team’s most recent draft of the GrandView District Small Area Plan (see the slideshow and PDF below).
After the new year, we’re meeting again to discuss edits to that draft (Sat. January 7th, 8:00 am to Noon at the Edina Senior Center).
In preparation for that meeting, I’ve asked members of the Steering Committee to publicly comment on and discuss their reaction to the draft here on this blog post. Community members who are not on the Steering Committee are also welcome to participate.
Your comments can focus on anything related to the draft. While general comments are fine, it would be most helpful if you identified and explained which specific parts of the plan you think need to be modified.
For instance, I think it would be helpful to have an Executive Summary at the beginning of the Plan that provides an overview of what we are recommending. You might comment on the Plan’s recommendations for particular changes (like recommended changes to Vernon Avenue or the Highway 100 interchange).
You can also ask questions and react to the comments of others, engaging in a discussion.
I’m hoping that the online comments and discussion will help us make our January 7th meeting more effective as we work to convert the draft to a final proposal we can approve at our meeting on January 19th.
This will not be the last opportunity for the public to comment. We are planning a public comment period for January 25 through March 9 that will include a public hearing before the Planning Commission. We may offer some ways to comment online then, too.
I’ve asked Griff Wigley, the project manager for Edina Citizen Engagement, to do what needs to be done in the way of moderating the discussion. I’ll be following along closely and may chime in occasionally myself.
This should be fun and interesting. I’m looking forward to it.
Kevin Staunton
Member, Edina Planning Commission
Chair, GrandView District Steering Committee
See the comments here and add your own.
View the slideshow version (fullscreen recommended; click the icon in the lower right corner) or download the 59-page PDF:
See the comments here and add your own.
Update January 28, 2012: comments are now closed.
Kevin,
I’ve added the ability for people to attach files with their comments. It seems to work, but we’ll soon find out.
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After learning more about the Planning process, I have a better understanding as to why additional housing might be good for this area. 1) it creates new opportunities for people to move into or retire in Edina 2) It helps create a sense of “place” and provides activity in the area.
Specific to the Public Works site I have a concern that the plan calls for too much housing, which will create more density and more traffic for the area. I personally think we need some housing for the reasons I stated above, but wonder if some of the proposed housing space could be retail/restaurant etc.? I would be curious what others think about the overall housing question in the plan.
Chris, thanks for starting things off.
I see the Land Use map/graphic on P. 12 shows the areas for medium / high density residential.
And the Public Works Site map on P. 16 mentions “a variety of residential uses including condominiums, apartments and townhouse building types.”
Are there other pages of the Draft Plan that you can point to that would help people see what’s being considered for housing?
Chris — one of the ways we might deal with the issue you raise is to use a form-based (instead of use-based) zoning code for the area. As the name implies, the form-based code regulates the built form instead of the types of uses. If we designate the entire area as “mixed use” and manage the height, bulk, mass and scale of the structures, the market can dictate whether particular parcels of property are used for office, retail, restaurant or residential.
Good approachl, Kevin. I am interested in how specific to sub parts of the district the 4 specifications can be, eg. when discussing buildngs ajacent to the public square can set backs be specified? How do we assure the different expectations for primary auto vs. walking areas are implemented?
Good questions, Dorn. Generally, the two documents that control how property is developed are the comprehensive plan and the zoning code. The comp plan sets the broad goals and objectives and the zoning code implements them with specific regulations. When I mentioned the form-based code above, I was referring to the zoning code. The Small Area Plan we are creating in this process will amend the comp plan; changes to the zoning code would follow in the future. That said, I think it’s important that the Small Area Plan speak to the issues you raise. It might, for instance, describe the areas we intent to be primarily automotive convenience and those we intend to be primarily pedestrian-oriented (recognizing that we want the entire area to be accessible to all forms of transportation) and recommend that the City consider using form-based zoning regulations to enforce those goals. With respect to the community commons (public square), we should describe the character we are looking for. We can put specific setback or height limitations or requirements in the comprehensive plan but it limits our future flexibility. My own feeling is that the details (i.e., specific setback distances, heights, etc.) should wait until we know more about what will be built. For instance, the square footage of a community structure can’t really be determined until the City evaluates the needs for community facilities and services and decides which should be located in this area. I’m reluctant to establish the exact setbacks for the public works site until I know more about the size we want a public building (and any private buildings) on that site to be.
Chris and Kevin both have valid comments.
I believe we need to have a significant amount of housing to ensure activity and a sense of security 24 hours a day in this area. If we do not have enough housing, the area will feel like it “shuts down” at the end of the day. For example, I work in North Loop (warehouse district) in Minneapolis. 10 years ago, it was scary working late at night, because the streets were empty. Now the streets are active with empty nesters and young professionals who have moved into the new housing units.
I am not worried about traffic issues due to housing because it will counter-balance the other uses in the area. Unlike office space, people do not all come and go at the same time from housing.
Looks great! The revised street layout makes good sense.
Steering Committee member Tom Bonneville has asked us to post these two PDF’s of a plan that he’s drafted titled:
Grandview Center Concept Plan
File: 20111216132045353.pdf
File: 20111216133000529.pdf
The two sites are copies from some plans I provided which are much clearer if posted at our next meeting. The key ingredients are that they consider actual topography from aerial topo survey photos from the Edina Engineering Department. Our Grand View Crossing Road must rise from el 948 by 11 feet to cross over the RR tracks at el 959.
There are entries to the underlying parking deck at Three places, making use of the existing location on Eden, a second on Arcadia at the arrival point for the Hwy 100 off ramp and one at the GV Crossing.
Provided is a numerical summary of the whole concept.
This plan could be used to develop preliminary and final plans for a developer who would choose it.
Park N Ride
The existing circle of the ON-Ramp from EB 50th (closed as recommended by Jack Broz, our traffic consultant) is used to show a round parking structure which on 3 levels holds well over 300 stalls with easy access between levels.
The use of part of the on-ramp for buses and some autos allows for space for waiting buses. Access to the ramp is from Grange. The center core can be for convenience store,police, state patrol, weather, and small offices.
Please review as a wall mounted presentation.
Edina Patch yesterday: Proposed Grandview Plan Emphasizes Mixed Use, Connectivity
Someone named jay magoffin has asked these questions in a comment attached to the article:
Kevin/Chris, it would be helpful for one of you to reply to Jay on Patch and then copy/paste your reply here.
Thanks for the good questions, Jay. Let me take a stab at answering them (with at least my own perspective). First, I am not sure which ramps you are referring to the State agreeing to change but assume you are talking about the ramps on the east side of 100. Discussions about making such changes would need to include financing alternatives. There are a variety of potential sources for financing such changes. With respect to your second question, there has been some discussion of the possibility of using the city public works site as a temporary home for the school buses during transition to a new bus facility (the school district has been very engaged in our process and wants to be part of a solution that meets its ongoing need for a bus facility but recognizes that there can’t be a gap in service).
I think it’s safe to say, though, that members of the steering committee don’t think the best long term use for the public works site is as a bus garage for the school district. Finding a satisfactory replacement for the existing bus facility is important, though, because it permits redevelopment of that site. I have not heard discussions of renovating the existing building to use as a coffee shop but know that the steering committee is interested in redevelopment of that site in a way that enhances revenue to the City.
The draft report is really beginning to communicate a vision! I particularly like some of the aerial drawings (pages 15, 17, 20, 27) and how they help to convey what the mix of development and open spaces can look like, and how the functioning of the District can improve so much with appropriate space for pedestrians, bikes and autos.
The pedestrian bridge concept over Hwy 100 at GrandView Crossing also begins to appear in the drawings (page 17) as it has been envisioned — as an open, wide, safe and attractive connector in the center of the District, perhaps even as a signature feature. The report could go further in making clear that the idea of this connector is very different from the “enclosed cage” style of pedestrian crossings that currently exist further south across Hwy 100.
It would also be nice to say a bit more about the vision for the District in supporting transit to reduce congestion and improve efficiency and livability. Support for a community-scale park-and-ride in the District is consistent with this, as is the idea of maintaining flexibility for use of the railroad right of way for future local commuter transit options. Future commuter rail can be described as a potential amenity for the District, further attracting and supporting business and community activity.
Kudos to Tom Bonneville for his commitment to this process and his incredible capacity for detail! I learned something useful from Tom’s posting about the expected grade of the GrandView Crossing roadway at the north end of the public works site — meaningfully downward sloping from west to east. Something to take further into consideration in images and vision for that area.
Thanks to all for making this available for public viewing and comment. Hoping to hear from others in the community! LC
One of the questions in my mind as I review the draft Plan focuses on the school bus garage site. Although we don’t specifically outline the density of redevelopment on that site, the graphics in the draft show a two-story building on that site (see page 20). My own feeling is that we should consider greater density on that site. Permitting 4 or 5 stories there might provide the kind of space that a local business like Edina Family Physicians (who previously proposed consolidating its operations on the public works) could use and facilitate additional convenience retail (coffee shop? liquor store?). The site’s location on the more automotive oriented side of the District (just a half block west of the existing six-story apartment building and a block south of the Jerry’s Office Tower) would also seem fitting for the additional height. Finally, adding such height would enhance the value that can be generated by the site to help pay for relocation of the bus facility.
I have been looking at these plans for weeks, and I can’t seem to get a real feel of what the ‘plan’ is trying to do. I live off of Brookside, within walking distance to the Grandview area. From the articles I have read this past year, I was expecting this proposal to be a public area, something that would be enjoyable for many people. At first, I didn’t really agree with that, I thought retail space or someplace to grab a quick healthy bite to eat would be nice for my small family.
Looking at the most recent plans, I don’t really see any ‘open spaces’ for the community to gather at all. I see a rooftop park that will be accessible to who? The people that are living in those townhouses, apartments and condos underneath. This plan somewhat reminds me of what they did across from Miracle Mile, lots of beautiful lush area that is walked through and landscaped, BUT that area has the draw of all those retail stores underneath, including a starbucks and a trader joes. What would be the draw here? A nice place to sit but nowhere to get a cup of coffee? I don’t understand.
Why would I go to grandview ‘park’ with my family, when I could walk the same distance and go to Todd park, down the road.. a nice sized secluded park with a woods.. Yes there are apartments and Condos nearby, and they embrace the park as their backyard, but I don’t feel like it is their ‘home turf’. I never have felt uncomfortable there.
My own ‘Grand view’ for “Grandview” (har har) would feel somewhat like 50&france, and somewhat like Centennial lakes.. Leisure meets retail, not uppity. Someplace that is more family friendly than 50&France, but in the heart of the neighborhood. I love being able to order my pizza from Davannis and walk to pick up my order. I love bugging the Overnight Shift at holiday and know the employees by name.. and I think they love me too.
It’s not very clear about what will stay and what will go in the near future, but I don’t think filling the existing retail space with apartments and condos will help you find any ‘open space for the community’
Thanks for sharing your observations, Kaija. I actually think what you are describing is exactly the atmosphere we envision for the District. Our hope is to create exactly the kind of “mixed” use environment you describe (a nice place to sit AND a cup of coffee). The goal is to enhance the opportunity for connections and make those “connecting” opportunities available for pedestrians like you (as well as people who drive). Your thoughts are great feedback; we need to make sure the final version of the Plan conveys the themes you have so eloquently articulated.
I hope you’ll continue to share your thoughts online and (if you get a chance) in person as we seek more input like yours over the next couple of months.
Thanks for the warm welcome. What is the best place to sign up for updates on meetings in the coming year? I would love to attend.
I feel like I have a better feel for what the proposed plan is getting at, especially after reviewing the maps with clear elevations that Griff Wigley posted on behalf of Tom Bonneville. So thank you!
I was surprised that the elevation factor was pretty much left out until now, because I really think that is the beauty about this part of town.. The highway runs through it, and so does the railroad, but they are a story ‘below’ the retail spaces and streets that connect to the neighborhoods. As a neighbor, I don’t have to look at the retail spaces if I don’t want to, and that’s nice- especially because I like the convenience.
(Um.. that’s not including the obnoxious blue neon lights that shine onto our neighborhood from The Holiday Station store.. but that’s a different story entirely)
I didn’t mention in my last comment but I really am ecstatic about the possible integration of a transit station. I have many friends and family that simply don’t visit because we aren’t on ‘the line’ and the buses that do come through aren’t convenient. It would be awesome to be able to get on a bus in the neighborhood that would go to one of the proposed Southwest lightrail stops.
Thanks again for providing a place to voice our opinions! This is really useful!
Kaija- Thanks for the post and your comments, we greatly appreciate the feedback from the local neighbors. I am handling some of the communication efforts for this project, so to answer you first question of how to stay involved….you have already mastered that aspect. The Citizen Engagement site has been set up to log (or blog) the entire process in an open format. We have been and will be posting all information via this website. Also, you can check out http://www.cityofedina.com/grandview for information as well. On your question of elevation, I think Tom’s drawings do a nice job of depicting options, that said we have been trying to use elevation to our advantage from the very first meetings. Many discussions have taken place on this topic, and Tom has taken a special interest. Again, thanks for your comments and please stay engaged as we head into the final months.
I’d make one other suggestion, Kaija. The City has a great service called City Extra that will automatically send you an e-mail notifying you of meetings or events related to your particular areas of interest. You can subscribe to City Extra athttp://cityextra.cityofedina.com/Login.aspx?targetUrl=%2fdefault.aspx
Once you create an account, check the box next to Grandview Small Area Plan and you will receive e-mail notices of the Grandview district meetings.
Overall, I applaud the many volunteers for contributing to a thoughtful plan that seeks to make Grandview a competitive and thriving neighborhood center. I think it could be a model for many similar areas in neighboring suburbs.
One thing that I don’t see clearly articulated is the transition between “freeway” and “neighborhood.” Because the nature of this area is that it’s virtually on top of Hwy 100, there is very little transition between these two spaces. It’s one of the reasons that makes Grandview is so very challenging for visitors now. It seems to me that we’ll have to be quite intentional (and expedient) about signaling to drivers that they have left “freeway” and are now in “neighborhood.” Public art and signage are two ways to do this…I’m sure there are more. But it feels like it has not been adequately addressed here.
Thanks for the opportunity to weigh in and I’m looking forward to additional discussion.
It’s a good observation, Katherine. A couple of things come to mind when I read your post (and the fact that they are not apparent from your review of the draft Plan tells me we should make sure we’re clearer about them).
First, the Plan proposes a couple of modifications to Vernon Avenue that will (hopefully) complete its transition from what used to be Highway 169 to the city/neighborhood street we think it should be. One change is to narrow the roadway from 4 lanes to three (two each way and a left turn middle lane) and use the reclaimed space for better sidewalks and bike lanes. The other is to add intersections at 51st, 52nd, and 53rd Streets. We think these changes will make it easier for pedestrians to access the District from the adjacent neighborhood by creating formal crossings and slowing traffic through the area (it would be okay with us if it also discouraged the rush hour cut through traffic by those on 62 East who are headed to 100 North).
Second, we are recommending changes in the roadway east of Interlachen to segregate pass-through traffic from the traffic is headed to the District. Making Gus Young Lane at the liquor store a one-way out will help accomplish this by allowing west bound travelers wanting to turn on Interlachen to use the right lane while those passing through can use the left lane without getting stuck behind a left-turning vehicle.
Others may have additional reactions.
Thanks for your comments. I hope you’ll continue to share your thoughts online and in person.
What are City of Edina’s plans to incorporate affordable and workforce rental housing into the Grandview Heights Small Area plan?
Thanks for your interest, Joe. The draft Plan contemplates some additional housing as part of the District. I know the City’s Comprehensive Plan establishes it as a policy of the City to meet its needs for affordable housing for existing residents and folks who work in the City and would like to live here as well. As we move forward in the planning process, it seems to me that policy will require us to talk about how new housing development in the District will help meet that goal.
It sounds like you have an interest in the topic and have spent a little time looking at what we’re developing. Any ideas on how affordable housing should fit into the plan?
K
My strong opinion is that the public works site should be utilized as a community designated space in the form of a first class community/recreation center. Unlike so many of our neighbors, Edina lacks a real Community Center, which exists solely for the community and is accessible 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. I have written a “Case for a Community Center” which I will upload here.
File: CaseForCommunityCenter.pdf
Thanks for responding. Since Edina is in a deficient of having affordable workforce housing to meet its own needs, it should at least have 20% of each housing project set aside for affordable housing. It also should be incorporated in the project with the market rate housing and not ghettoized in its own separate development which only serves to stigmatize low income residents. Rental housing is the most needed right now. It may be a stated “goal” for the City of Edina but it is incredibly troublesome and telling about it citizens to not find any mention of including affordable housing for low income people anywhere in the draft report.
Thanks Joe for your insights and comments. While I am not sure I 100% agree that every housing plan should have an affordable component, I do appreciate that topic being brought up. I don’t know as much about the topic as I probably should, but it seems to me there is rental property all over Edina available. Maybe I am missing the details, but not sure how big of an issue this is in the “Big Picture”.
BTW: Besides the obvious omission of affordable housing, the plan and many of its goals are quite nice, kudos to you.
From the Discussion Paper Low-Wage Spatial Mismatch in Minnesota from the Minnesota Housing Finance Agency:
Joe, in your comment, I’ve added a link to the PDF of that 2010 paper on the MN Housing Finance Agency website.
For those interested, the quote is on the bottom of page 6.
Thanks Griff!
I live in the neighborhood that is south of Grandview Square. There is only one way in and one way out of this neighborhood and that is Sherwood Drive. You proposal turns Sherwood Drive into a parking lot which in my opinion will not work for the people who live in our neighborhood. This would leave an entrance intended for the residents of Grandview Square and the office building as the main entrance into our neighborhood. Not acceptable!! Would you like to access your neighborhood by driving through a mixed use condominium and office building complex? Traffic is fairly heavy during the day with people going to work, school busses transporting kids for school, garbage trucks, snow plows, delivery trucks and the list of vehicles goes on and on.
According to the plan, it also appears that you might be able to cut through the Sherwood parking lot to get into our neighborhood, but again, this access would not be very friendly to our neighborhood. How many other neighborhoods in Edina are there where residents have to cut through a parking lot to get to their homes? Please leave Sherwood Drive alone in your proposal. It might not flow well in your diagrams but it is really all we have to get in and out of our neighborhood.
Pat — thanks for your comment. We’ve had some input from folks in your neighborhood but it is always good to have more. One of the things we heard clearly from people in your neighborhood was that we should not add any entrances or exits to the neighborhood; people seem to like the fact that there is only one way in and one way out of the neighborhood.
At the same time, we were trying to deal with two issues related to the library area — (1) a chronic shortage of parking; and (2) a lack of a “presence” on Vernon Avenue. The proposed changes in the Framework address those issues. Access to your neighborhood is not eliminated. Instead, it is provided through Grandview Square (which exists today) and from a new intersection at 53rd Street and Vernon Avenue.
That said, you correctly point out that the entrance/exit to the neighborhood (being the only one) is critical. We should test how the creation of an intersection at 53rd and Vernon compares to the existing intersection at Sherwood and Eden Avenue for people trying to get to and from Vernon Avenue.
Thanks again for your comments; I hope you’ll continue to engage as we move ahead with this process.
Kevin Staunton
Kevin,
Thanks for your response. I participated at one of your meetings where we were able to provide feedback. The people that were at that meeting from our neighborhood and participated in the breakout sessions emphasized that we wanted Sherwood Road to remain in place. You are correct in saying that we did not want to add entrances (like the one proposed at 53rd St.) but we also said that we did not want any taken away. We also pointed out that when the Grandview development was approved by the city, our neighborhood was assured by the City Council that Sherwood Road would remain in place as our way to access our homes. I would hope that the city would not go back on its word.
In my opinion, putting an intersection at 53rd street is problematic. I can’t imagine trying to access that entrance while going west on Vernon given the traffic on that street. Making a left hand turn after passing through the stop lights at the Eden Ave intersection would be difficult because of the heavy traffic and would probably back up traffic on Vernon. I assume there would not be stop lights there.
Accessing our neighborhood by going through Grandview Square also in my opinion doesn’t make much sense. The entrance way that exists there today was specifically put in place for the residents of the condominiums, the businesses located in the office building and the patrons of the library and senior center. It was not intended as a thoroughfare for the 47 home owners of the Richmond Hills neighborhood. Your proposal converts this entry way for Grandview Square into a heavier traveled city street which isn’t practical given the number and types of vehicles that would need to come through there on a daily basis including garbage trucks, buses, etc.
I dispute your claim that there is a chronic shortage of parking at the library. We frequent the library and drive by it on a daily basis and there always seems to be spaces available. There is also an abundance of parking at the office building that can be accessed by patrons of the library and senior center.
I also don’t see how replacing Sherwood Road with a parking lot improves the “presence” of the library. But I can see how it makes our neighborhood less desirable and decreases property values of the 47 tax paying home owners. A functional tree lined street is more desirable than a parking lot for our neighborhood.
I think it is a great idea to improve the Grandview district. Many of your ideas are good ones. However, when the plan negatively impacts existing nearby residents, which I believe this one does, the plan needs to be changed. Again, if you lived in this neighborhood would you want Sherwood Road turned into a parking lot? It is very easy to make property changes when it doesn’t impact you.
I welcome further discussion on this.
We need a link to this site from the City of Edina websie to facilitate public review and comment prior to asking for Council approval
Good point, Dorn. Griff, can you help us make that happen?
Dorn/Kevin,
There’s a generic link to this Grandview blogsite from the City’s Grandview page.
Once we get the new blog post up requesting public online comments, I’ll ask the communications dept folks to promote it with a link from a variety of locations, including the home page.
I’m closing this comment thread to any further comments, as we’ll have a new blog post on Monday with a new draft of the plan for the formal public comment period that will run through March 9.
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